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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

AN INTERVIEW WITH IN10SE Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP

By Thundercat www.thundercatseductionlair.com www.seductionlair.com www.artofapproaching.com

© Copyright 2005-2009 Superior-Living. It is forbidden to copy this report in any manner.

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

Introduction In the world of the online seduction community, there is probably no other figure more enigmatic or controversial than IN10SE (pronounced Intense). Yet, for all the buzz surrounding him, IN10SE remains below the radar of most people’s research. His posts are among the most popular and respected, not only on Moderated Alt.Seduction.Fast, but also on the super-elite Mystery’s Lounge. For years, IN10SE was considered a top student in the NLP-based seduction community, before controversy struck and he was unceremoniously cast out by the powers that be. Now, unhindered by the restrictions that came with being in that inner circle of the darkhypnotic arts, IN10SE has emerged with a style all his own, and more powerful than any of his former brethren have seen. In his first, ever, major interview, IN10SE shares some of his most powerful secrets and most forbidden techniques. Techniques so powerful and successful, that bringing them to the forefront almost cost him his reputation. Read this interview carefully and absorb the knowledge IN10SE has to share, but heed this WARNING: The techniques IN10SE shares here are very powerful and are not to be used lightly. Always be aware of how you use his patterns, since you may get more than you bargained for. And now, on with the interview…

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

IN10SE: So, where should we start? THUNDERCAT: All right, let’s start with your background. How did you originally get into this? IN10SE: Into talking to women and being with women and all that kind of stuff? THUNDERCAT: Yeah. How did you get into the community, how did you start off with SS, what lead you to that? IN10SE: Well, there’s the story about the “community” and then there’s the story of my background growing up… THUNDERCAT: Let’s start with that, then we’ll go into the community stuff. IN10SE: Well, actually, growing up I was like… I was one of these little kids that was always curious about girls. I think maybe in kindergarten, I remember there was this one girl that everyone had a crush on. Her name was Laura, she was this really cute girl… and EVERYONE loved her. She used to wear these little cute dresses with the ruffles, you know? And she was sitting in front of me in class one day – this is in kindergarten – and she stands up, and I just could not resist the urge to, like -- pull her dress up! THUNDERCAT: (Laughter) IN10SE: So I did that, and I saw her ruffly little underwear, and then the teacher’s aid, she saw me, and she said “Chris, what are you doing?! If I ever see you do that again I’m going to tell the teacher on you!” You know. So I was always kind-of curious, and when I was in sixth grade, I remember dating not just one girl, but dating the whole group. It was like one of these little immature things where you kind of… you’re “going around.” THUNDERCAT: Making the rounds? IN10SE: Yeah. Well, I mean, we totally called it “going around.” That was the term that meant “you’re with this person.” THUNDERCAT: Yeah. IN10SE: And so I was with one girl one week, and I was with her best friend the next week, and I was with another girl the next week… THUNDERCAT: A regular Player. IN10SE: Well, you know…

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

THUNDERCAT: (laughter) IN10SE: But it was kind of interesting the way that worked. And you know actually, now that I think about it, I think with women there’s a lot of that type of mentality still. As a lot of women get older, I think deep down inside they’re still the most insecure little girls like that. THUNDERCAT: Now, when did you first start studying seduction? IN10SE: I remember back… it must have been 1988. I was listening on this radio station, KROQ, and there was this radio show called “Kevin and Bean,” and they were interviewing RJ. THUNDERCAT: Ah. MINE’99. IN10SE: Yes. THUNDERCAT: Okay. IN10SE: And he was making these claims, and it all sounded pretty intriguing. And at that point, I wasn’t having any difficulty with women, but it was something that I could always improve, you know? So I ordered this book “How to Get The Woman You Desire Into Bed,” or something. It was a 1-800 number that you called to get the book, and it was just this little, spiral bound type of book – cardboard with a blue cover. It didn’t even go into many of the Neuro Linguistic Programming things like patterning and that type of stuff. The most that I really got out of it was these subsets of core beliefs, and the only one I really remember the most is “I walk through the world without apology. I make no excuses for my desires as a man,” you know? THUNDERCAT: Yeah IN10SE: It was that one. And I remember I read that and I went out that week, with my friends and, uh… got laid. THUNDERCAT: (laughter) IN10SE: Just right off the bat. THUNDERCAT: Just like that? IN10SE: Just like that. THUNDERCAT: Wow.

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

IN10SE: No patterning, no nothing. Just no excuses. THUNDERCAT: Now, I remember this book. Did you do any of the “mirroring,” or anything at that point? Or was it just total caveman? IN10SE: It wasn’t caveman at all. It was just… I don’t even remember what I did. I was just doing what I usually did, but just doing it with a different attitude that I was making no apologies. It was like maybe before I might have been hesitant, held back, whatever, but after I read that it was like I was just saying to myself “Okay, I’m not making any apologies for my desires as a man.” And I move through the world without apology. And so I got results right off the bat from that. THUNDERCAT: Okay IN10SE: And so I guess that was sort-of like an affirmation of sorts. Like maybe that kind of success early on kind of reaffirmed my belief that there were systems out there that did work, and there’s always ways to improve. And then what happened is I went through several years where I kind-of let that go. I let any study of any of that kind of stuff go. And you know, when I would go out with a girl I would just whip out that book again and just refresh it. And I’d do fine. But I didn’t really get involved in any kind of “community” or really involved with any people who were into the same types of things. That’s about it. I really didn’t start getting re-involved until I joined the SS email list. THUNDERCAT: So you got hard-core into SS when you joined the email list. By that time, had you gotten any other SS products? Like the basic home study course? IN10SE: Yeah, I had bought the basic study course and all that. THUNDERCAT: And what were your first impressions of it? IN10SE: Well, I kind-of listened to it all the way through. And I really didn’t pay too much attention to the basic course, to tell you the truth. I mean, there was a lot of stuff in there, but I immediately went out and bought LA’99. And, um, I think it was LA’99 that I got. THUNDERCAT: That’s the tape that revolutionized the industry, right? IN10SE: (laughter) LA’99! Right.

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

THUNDERCAT: (laughs) IN10SE: So I watched that, and I hung out – I met some of the guys in the community… THUNDERCAT: How did you meet them? IN10SE: There was actually one guy that contacted me – I don’t even know what he’s doing anymore – but his name was Bucky. He contacted me, and him and I hung out a few times, but at this stage when I was kind-of getting back into it, I decided that I wasn’t gonna actually do it until I had a good thorough knowledge of it, you know what I mean? THUNDERCAT: Yeah. IN10SE: And in that time when I was holding back, I basically immersed myself in everything I could get my hands on. Every product, every book that I heard mention of… THUNDERCAT: In terms of what? IN10SE: Everything. But I didn’t just go to the books that were mentioned. Like, for instance, if someone mentioned a book by Robert Diltz, I wouldn’t just read that specific book. I would go back and read EVERY book that he wrote. And then if someone mentioned Bandler, I would go and read Bandler’s other stuff. And then from that point, I wouldn’t just go to that level. I would go to the level before that and see who THOSE people’s influences were. You know, people like Ericson, Korzimski, whatever. And basically looking at the first beginnings of where this came from. You know, like with Hypnosis, I went out and got every book there was on hypnosis, and read all these different theories of it, and I never really settled for the overt hypnotist frame. To me it just seemed like it was too intrusive. I went for more of the indirect suggestions, the indirect influence. I think that’s more of a conversational type of hypnosis. I’m not really even talking about hypnosis, I would just call it influence. THUNDERCAT: Okay, so, you got on the SS List, you were doing all this reading, and kind of getting to the roots behind it – IN10SE: I basically said that I was gonna study this stuff for six months. When six months comes along, I am gonna do it. No questions asked, just do it full on. Put 100% into it. And so six months passed, and I just immersed myself in all this stuff. And then on that date… basically that next month, I had 30 women.

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

THUNDERCAT: You what!? IN10SE: 30 women. THUNDERCAT: 30 women! Using this stuff? IN10SE: Using everything that I had learned. THUNDERCAT: Everything you had learned, read, and studied about? IN10SE: Everything. THUNDERCAT: Wow. IN10SE: NLP, persuasion… THUNDERCAT: That’s a lot of women, man. How’d you have time to read? IN10SE: I didn’t read much at that point! THUNDERCAT: (Laughs) IN10SE: It was all practice. It was putting it all into practice and really finding out what worked for me. And the thing is that… I mean, these were all women from different venues and you know, I would meet them different ways. Some of them I would meet in coffee shops, some of them I would meet online, on like Match.com and other dating sites, but I used every opportunity that I had to practice. But the thing is this… the numbers didn’t end there. I just got more, like, basically for the next three months. And then I got burnt out, and decided I didn’t want to put as much energy into it, just looking for something more steady. THUNDERCAT: Now, did you always go by the handle IN10SE? IN10SE: No. THUNDERCAT: What was your first handle? IN10SE: I didn’t have one. THUNDERCAT: Oh, you just used your name? IN10SE: Yeah.

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

THUNDERCAT: So when did you start getting noticed, when did you start kind-of climbing the ranks? IN10SE: Well, basically that friend introduced me to me to Swinggcat, and so Swinggcat and I started hanging out. And we started hanging out ALL the time. Then we started talking, and developing, you know, just going back and forth with ideas, and… I mean, I remember back in the day there was this whole thing about this “symbol fractionation.” And basically what it is, it’s a hypnosis method that combines NLP. I was reading this book, by Max Friedman Long, called “The Secret Science of Miracles,” or something like that. And it’s about “Huna.” And they were talking about this technique called “lowme lowme.” That’s basically the “laying of hands,” and they talked about the three elements that were needed in this practice of healing. And both parties had to be doing it, not just the healer, but the person who was being healed. Both participate in this mutual kind-of trance, as it were, where you needed to have three elements, the first one being touch, where there’s actual massage and laying on of hands. The second element was verbal suggestion, where along with the touch came the verbal suggestions, and people were doing this back… hundreds of years ago. And then, the third element being visualization, where both people basically visualize the energy flowing between two people. So I kind-of used that as a guideline. And I thought “Well, what would happen if we used this, but we used it giving a WOMAN a massage? And instead of it being a healing energy, it was an energy of arousal, or an energy of excitement, or a RED energy – you know, you just mention the color “red” and it has unconscious implications. It’s the color of love, it’s the color of romance and of passion. So then I tried it several times and it was like BOOM – BOOM – BOOM! You know? It was just amazing. I mean, I really didn’t have much that held me back before, but with this, it was just amazing the types of results you could get. And not just that, though. It was HOW turned on they got. I mean, you could take a woman that had never been that turned on and totally just raise up that level and that intensity. So yeah, basically Swinggcat and I threw around those ideas and came up with a system. Then we basically got together with RJ and he was… uh, I think I met him at one of these

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

lair meetings. I think it was the first one we had in LA and I had actually organized it. And, you know, really nice guy. And he knew Swinggcat and I were onto this, and so he never openly would tell us anything. I think he had reservations about sharing that kind of thing at the time, I think now all of that is pretty much open, and although he doesn’t teach everything that he knows because this stuff has the potential, if not used responsibly, to really screw someone up. But he does teach parts of it now, so it’s not really a big issue. But there are some big concepts that he doesn’t teach now, and actually, nowadays, I don’t really use it anymore. I mean, I may use it afterwards, but that’s as far as I go with it. THUNDERCAT: Okay. Let’s get into some of your method now, because you’re pretty much famous within the community for being an innovator in terms of patterning, and all that kind-of “SS” end of things. And a lot of people are pretty intrigued about your posts, which are very thoughtful and thought-provoking. In fact, I know a lot of people on mASF consider you one of their best posters. So I wanted to ask you about some of your own stuff. Tell me what the “Shadow In The Rising Sun” pattern is. IN10SE: Ah, the Shadow In The Rising Sun… Well, basically when I get together with a woman, I was never able to do the actual patterning where you memorize a set of words and spit it back out to her. I was never able to do that, I always had to have a more interactive way of communicating, you know, its kind-of like the old metaphor where you’re in a college class, and are you get into a teacher or professor who’s just lecturing you? You know, in order to get something out of it, you’d have to be self-motivated or self involved also. You’d have to really be interested in what they’re saying. So there would have to be a certain level of interest already, and to tell you the truth, most women are not self-motivated listeners when it comes to a guy they don’t know who’s trying to pick them up, unless they’re already attracted to the guy, or unless he has some sort of authority or social proof already, then she MAY be interested in what he has to say. But, a lot of times, even if he has authority or social proof, when she gets wind that he’s trying to “pick her up,” it’s like – BOOM! The walls go up, you know? So really, my whole approach is that I, from the beginning, never really go into the “setup” stuff where I make it obvious that I’m trying to pick them up. THUNDERCAT: So do you take more of a “Juggler” approach?

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

IN10SE: I haven’t really read too many of his posts, but my approach in general is that I’ll talk about themes. So this thing about the “self-motivated listener,” I remember professors where if there wasn’t necessarily a scripted outline for a course, they would ask YOU the questions. And you would actually have to get involved. Sort-of like the Socratic method. It goes back and forth, they post the questions, and you come up with the answers, and then you have to defend your answers. I think I got a lot more out of those type of classes, and got more emotionally involved. Throughout everything, your goal is: in every interaction – whether it be with a woman or anyone – is to arouse an emotion or a feeling, and that’s what I like, when people do what they feel and say what they think. So basically my goal is to arouse emotion and feeling and kind-of get to the deeper levels. I mean, people can talk about the weather, they can ask “how’s your day,” and all this stuff, but when you have this need to be communicated to, and when you need someone to see what’s really going on inside you, and to not only acknowledge it and validate it, but to be able to share that with this person. So some of the things I’ll talk about are these things. They’re things you don’t really hear about every day. You know, they’re not like, about the “weather” or thing like “such-and-such happened to my friend over here,” you know? I mean, these are themes that strike to the core of people, the core of who they are, that make them think. Before I get into that shadow in the rising sun, I want to make it clear you always have to be aware of what a woman’s moods are. Like, “why are they telling me what they’re feeling? What does she want out of this interaction?” Whenever you’re with a woman, you realize that you have to be fulfilling a need that she has. If you’re not fulfilling a need, then you won’t be there for long. It could be a need of self-discovery, it could be a need of acceptance and validation for who she really is and what she really thinks, things she doesn’t really tell anyone, you know? It could be an outlet for her angst, or her physical frustrations, sexual frustrations, whatever. But you should always be fulfilling a need. Whenever I talk to a woman, I’m always searching for what the need is. And if there’s not a need, I’ll insinuate one and kind-of plant little seeds and suggestions that create a need, or make someone think “Hmmm, is there really something that I need?” So, this theme, the shadow in the rising sun… you can call this a routine, because it’s not a pattern. It’s interactive. And what I say with one person may be completely different

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

with what I say with another person. But, you know, if someone brings out the idea of something they enjoy, maybe it’s something a little sinful, I’ll say: “Oh yeah, that’s your shadow coming out.” THUNDERCAT: (laughs) IN10SE: It really dawned on me the idea of how powerful this shadow was when one of my friends said something like “Oh, I need to go feed my shadow.” And I was wondering what that meant. I mean, what does it mean to feed your shadow? And then I realized that “Yes! Everyone has this need to feed their shadow!” And what the shadow is, is an idea Carl Jung came up with – he was a psychoanalyst for a long time, he was one of Freud’s students. And basically the idea is that we’re born completely whole, and the society we grow up in tells us what to show to the world, and what NOT to show to the world, but what it really does is it fragments us, it fractures us into different parts. And of course the part we show the world is the good part, the good behavior, when in reality we may go through our whole lives and not realize our own needs for balance that there’s another side that is more in touch with our primal urges, you know? It’s the “shadow.” It’s all those things you’ve always wanted to do. Its kind-of like the “Id.” And so what happens is the more that you repress your shadow, as you go through life, the more it grows. And the more it grows, and the more it grows, the more turmoil and inner conflict accrues, until you reach a mid-life crisis. And that’s actually what Carl Jung’s theory of a mid-life crisis was, it’s like a sun that rises – and this is where the “rising sun” comes from – basically, a person’s life is like a rising sun. It’s like they go through life repressing their shadow, repressing, repressing, then they get to the top of the sun, and everything that was once true about this person’s life completely changes as the sun goes down. And now, it’s their shadow that’s dominant – the dominant part of our lives. And it all comes out of the need for balance, basically. That’s why you here these stories, you know, about the person who was the church deacon. And he’s here in church, conservative all throughout the beginning of his life, and midlife crisis comes along and BOOM. He’s out in bars, you know, in bars drinking. Basically, that’s the shadow.

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

The moral of the whole thing is you have to realize that you do have a shadow, and you are aware of what your shadow wants. You may get urges, just don’t deny that these parts of yourself are real. You just have to find an outlet for the things that you really want to do. THUNDERCAT: That’s genius, man. That’s a great routine. I also notice that there’s a whole anchoring technique you do when you talk about the sun. IN10SE: You like that? THUNDERCAT: Yeah. It’s so subtle, it’s brilliant. Very cool stuff. I think a lot of people look to your sexual value elicitations as being your major accomplishments. I’d like to know personally, how did you come up with it, and what exactly do you do? IN10SE: Well, in NLP, there’s a technique called “value elicitation,” and basically the idea is that everyone has things, or values, that are important to them in their life. The way you can find where your values are, is just ask yourself -- or ask someone you’re with -- lets say you want life values – “What about life is important to you?” And depending upon what the person holds most important, they’re gonna rank these values. Someone might say “money.” Well, money isn’t really a value. That’s really what’s called a “means value.” It’s something that gives you something. So, when someone gives me something like either money or family or social status, if someone gives me that as a value, I say: “Well, what does that give you?” And when hey answer that question, “What does that give you?” – THAT’S the value. For instance: Money. What does money give you? Security. Okay, security is your value. And how do you know that you have security? That’s the next question. Then the person will lay out their whole strategy and their whole process of how they know that they have security. They’ll say “I need to be able to pay the bills,” “I need to have this much money in the bank.” “I need this type of house or this type of car,” you know. What ever their criteria is, that’s the way that they know. Then the next step is to feed it back to them what they said to you. So if security is important, and you know you have security because of “X,” when you can have “X,” what does that feel like? That “What does that feel like?” question, that gets them into the feeling stage that you want them to be at. With any type of influence, you need to get that person to feel.

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

That’s the question, the key question, that opens up the feeling. That turns it from something like just talking about the weather, to “I’m starting to feel something.” Let me give you an example. I remember I first did this to Style. He never had any exposure to this prior. We were sitting in the Hard Rock Café and I elicited some values and he was just blown away. That basically confirmed and validated the value of value elicitation. But to give you an example, let me do one or two with you. THUNDERCAT: Me? IN10SE: Yes. So for you, let’s say you’re a girl and I’m out talking with you. Let’s say that we’re past the attraction point. There’s already some initial attraction there. She knows that she could be interested in me, and she could end up hooking up with me. Now it’s to the point to where we’re just building comfort and we’re kind of getting to this point where: is there something there? Definitely. Will it be long term? That sort of thing. So that’s the kind of context that I would use value elicitation in. I wouldn’t use it right of the bat. It’s way too intrusive. But let’s say we’re talking and I was just going to ask you: “I’m curious, when you’re with a guy, what quality would you need in a guy?” THUNDERCAT: Enjoyment. IN10SE: Enjoyment? So, how would you know enjoyment? THUNDERCAT: I’d be laughing a lot. IN10SE: What other kinds of things go along with enjoyment? THUNDERCAT: Not checking my watch. IN10SE: So, it’s kind of like where you’re laughing, you’re not checking your watch -you’re kind of just wrapped up in this situation. You lose track of time and you’re just having this total sense of enjoyment, right? THUNDERCAT: Yeah. IN10SE: Okay, what’s another quality you want to have? THUNDERCAT: Um, gosh. I don’t know.

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

IN10SE: Oh, and then another thing here is that I’ll always link it to myself. I’ll do it very subtly, I’ll say, “So what’s another quality that you wanna have with this person that you’re with?” You know, there’s a part of the brain that says, “The person I’m with? I’m with this guy right now!” But it doesn’t register. It’s just an unconscious link. I’ll use that language. I’ll say “What’s another quality you’d like to have with this person you’re with?” THUNDERCAT: And you illicit these values -- once you get them, what do you do? IN10SE: Well, let me do one more. What’s another quality or something that you’d want to have with this person? THUNDERCAT: I don’t know. Comfort? Comfortable around them I guess. IN10SE: So how would you know that you have comfort? THUNDERCAT: I don’t know… just I’m not afraid to say anything. IN10SE: So where you’re not afraid to say anything. What else? THUNDERCAT: I don’t know, man… IN10SE: Well, you know what? If you were a chick, you’d be talking a mile a minute. (laughs) THUNDERCAT: Yeah, I guess that’s my problem! (laughs) IN10SE: Anyway, so then my next question: “So when you have that sense of excitement, when you lose track of time, when you can just talk about anything, when you’re having a lot of fun, and you’ve also got this sense of comfort with this person, where you can just say whatever you want…” Basically I just say back what you’ve just told me, I say: “So, when you have these things, how does it make you feel?” And then, at that point, the person goes into feeling mode. They imagine it, and they’re like, “Oh that would be awesome!” And at that point, they’re not just talking about whatever, they’re starting to FEEL. So then I got this idea… What if I were to use that same format, but instead of eliciting values of a relationship, I’d elicit values of having sex, or what it was like to be turned on. So I tried it. And it was amazing! I mean women were just so aroused and turned on. Like, now let me do one with you.

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THUNDERCAT: (laughs) Can’t you just give me an example? A nice little anecdote or something? IN10SE: It really has to be illustrated by role playing. THUNDERCAT: (sighs) Oh… alright…. IN10SE: Okay, lets say you and I were out, and you were this chick who just loved to talk a lot, and lets say the nights starting to get late and its kind of getting to that point where you know it could go one way or the other and your just looking for something to push it in the direction that you want it to go to. This is where I bring this kind of stuff up. So my question then is: “When you’re with someone and you’re really turned on, and if you can think about the best sex you’ve ever had, what was it about it that made it so good? What quality?” THUNDERCAT: What quality I want in good sex? IN10SE: Well, you have to think about it. Think about the best sex you’ve ever had, and what was it about it that made it so awesome? THUNDERCAT: The fact that I didn’t have to pay her. (Laughs) IN10SE: (laughs) Come on. THUNDERCAT: Okay, seriously lets see… if I was a girl… I guess multiple orgasms? I don’t know. IN10SE: What is it that multiple orgasms get you? THUNDERCAT: Intense pleasure. IN10SE: Intense pleasure? So, how else do you know that you have intense pleasure? Physical pleasure? THUNDERCAT: I guess, something like butterflies in the stomach. Heavy breathing. IN10SE: Okay, you’ve got butterflies, you’re breathing heavy, what else happens? THUNDERCAT: Feel hot all over. IN10SE: And you’re starting to feel hot all over. THUNDERCAT: (laughing) This is creepy, dude.

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

IN10SE: But can you see like as they’re saying this, I’m giving them commands back, as if I’m repeating it, I’m saying: “So you’re feeling hot all over, so you’re starting to get turned on, so you’re —“ THUNDERCAT: (laughing) That’s fuckin’ evil, dude. IN10SE: And so I say, “So, when you’re with THIS GUY…” And I do it for, like, three different qualities. Some people say “sensual,” they need the quality of being sensual, or they need to feel the closeness, or they need to feel nasty, you know? So my question is: “How do you know when you’re being close?” “What is it, or how do you know that you’re nasty?” “What are the things that you do?” And then I start feeding these back through direct commands and I say: “So, when you have this sense of being where you’re having intense pleasure, where you’re having multiple orgasms, you’re feeling hot all over, you’re just completely aroused, you know, butterflies in your stomach, and you’re breathing heavy, what is it like?” So at that point, they start FEELING it. It’s like you’re eliciting a sexual feeling. You’re leading them to that point of being turned on, right then and there. Well, I met one woman in a coffee shop. THUNDERCAT: A coffee shop? IN10SE: Yeah, and another at a restaurant-bar type of thing. The one woman, it was within 30 minutes we were in the car, doin’ it. That was the one at the coffee shop. The one at the restaurant, it was more like 2 hours. THUNDERCAT: That’s pretty fast, man. IN10SE: I think another key is just getting the right situation and setting things up the right way. For those type of bridges, I think that isolation was the key. Once you get them to that point, where they’re feeling that certain way, where they’re turned on, you have to look for a good smooth move to isolate, and for me, in those situations it’s always like: “Well, let’s go take a walk.” Or “I’m getting tired of just sitting here, lets go get some air or something.” And then we end up talking by her car and then “It’s cold out here, lets go inside the car,” and then once we’re inside the car, it’s over. THUNDERCAT: Wow, this is some pretty cool stuff, I have to admit. But it does remind me of something I heard on the basic home study course, which was, the relationship value elicitation. Now did you….

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IN10SE: Actually I think we mentioned it, the one about building a better girlfriend? THUNDERCAT: No, this was back in the ‘98 study course. It wasn’t the sexual stuff, though. IN10SE: You know, I don’t think we ever bought into the whole “value elicitating” thing. It was really Mark who did that. THUNDERCAT: So Mark was kinda the.. IN10SE: He was the one who was really big into it. It’s really kind of a fundamental type thing. I mean you go back to the basics and Bandler, Dults, all those guys, were eliciting values. You know, Tony Robbins has a whole thing about value elicitation. THUNDERCAT: So it’s not strictly an SS thing. Interesting. Now, you’re kind of almost famous for your sexual techniques. IN10SE: Really? THUNDERCAT: Yeah. There’s a lot of talk in the community about it. Would you care to share any? IN10SE: Well one of the things is, you have to realize that a woman’s mind -- and this is all people -- the mind and body, we kind of see them as two separate identities, but really they’re both inter-connected. If you think about someone who’s thirsty, the feeling of thirst comes from having a physical lack of water. But along with that comes a mental picture of a cool glass of water or a mental picture of a running stream. So there’s always a mental picture or something mental that goes along with a body feeling. And they’re interconnected. Basically, you can influence the body by doing things with a mental picture and that has all to do with imagination, or you can do things with the body and that influences the mental picture. It works both ways. For instance, let’s say you were to feel turned on. You would probably get a mental picture of a really hot girl along with that. You know a really hot girl with a bikini. It goes hand in hand. At the same time, it works the other way, where if you were to see a hot girl in a bikini, just that visual picture would provoke the body sensations, the body feelings. So, the two are interconnected.

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When you’re with a woman, you can’t just focus on one thing. You always have to focus on both. There’s ways to amp up desire. One of those ways is building tension. And there’s other people that talk about that kind of thing. You can build tension through out the whole interaction. In fact, if someone doesn’t need anything and doesn’t feel any tension at all, they’re not gonna be motivated to take action. With the whole sexual value elicitation, what you’re doing basically, is creating such an intense need at that point and time, that they NEED to take action on it. That’s basically what you’re doing. And so far as getting them physically turned on, there’s a lot of things you can do. There’s some ideas I’ve actually been playing around with lately and what it has to do with is sexual rapport. And you can have sexual rapport, even with someone you may have just met. What you’re doing is modeling. You’re actually acting as if there was some sexual rapport. THUNDERCAT: Wouldn’t some call that flirting? IN10SE: Yeah, you could call it flirting. There’s a lot of names for it. But I think it’s different when you consciously have the belief that this is going to a certain end point. When you have the belief that this is going in that direction, or if you just pretend that you already are hooking up, you’ll find yourself acting completely differently, physically, than you would if you didn’t have that mind set. If you were just flirting. There’s certain boundaries and lines you have to be kind-of careful about. If you look at some of these TV shows -- I was just watching this show “Average Joe,” and you look at some of those guys on there, you know, the guys that have game, you can see, some of the things that they do -- it’s like natural behaviors that assume that close physical rapport already. Things like, let’s say that I were out with a girl, we’re sitting here talking… and for one thing I don’t like sitting directly across from her at the table. Cause it’s kind of confrontational. I would much rather sit beside her. THUNDERCAT: So, you’d actually sit in the same booth with her. IN10SE: Yeah. So let’s say we’re sitting beside each other, there’s things that you can do physically: there’s physical space, there’s a whole concept of kino, or touching, where you make kind of like a casual touch, but nothing that’s suggestive, something that seems totally innocent. You touch on the leg, you touch on the arm, that kind of thing. Then you slowly it progresses as the comfort level progresses, to where you’re actually touching and leaning shoulders on each other. And then you begin to assume a sexual rapport. I start doing things like sharing each other’s drinks. Or getting a fork of my

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

dessert and feeding it to her. Or doing something like brushing something off of her lip with your finger. Or leaning in and whispering into her ear. Or touching her hair. All these little things basically are things you would do with a lover. And you have to be careful. With some women, it’s a whole rapport thing. The rapport may be occurring on a verbal level as well. It’s kind of interesting. There’s these different levels of communication going on all the time. I mean there’s physical communicating, there’s also the verbal communication and the emotional communication. Basically, when you think about seduction, there’s emotional seduction and there’s physical seduction. Someone could have physical seduction, and if you’re going about it the right way, and you’re doing it the right way, that can be successful, because the body and the mind are connected. But most people tend to focus on just intellectual stuff when they’re with a girl, and superficial stuff. Most guys are talking about the sports game, that kind of thing. And they’re really not even scratching the surface of where they need to go. They really need to go deeper into the emotional levels or the physical levels where they can feel. You want to get them to feel, you know? Cause that’s when they’re gonna start taking action. Did that answer your question? THUNDERCAT: I was actually thinking more once you got them into bed. IN10SE: Okay. Once you get them into bed. Go slow. You want to get them to make the move. It’s them. You can take as long as you want. You can take all night. Slow as you need to. You can do things like kissing her along the insides of her thighs. And once you get up to the point, you don’t touch them. You may blow on it, but as you blow on it, you move back down to the other thigh. Do that. Just kiss along that. She’ll be arching her back, she’ll be doing things like that, and then you go back up. And as you go back up, you want to get her to the point of where she’s the one who grabs you and pulls you. I mean if you’ve gotta sit there and tease her all night long, then that’s what you’ve gotta do, ‘cause once you get her to that point, she’ll be so hot that no matter what you do, and basically, it’s gonna be great. There’s a lot of things, you know? There’s this one orgasm method, basically, there’s the g-spot, way deep inside her, right above the cervix, there’s this really deep spot, it’s called the anterior fornix. It’s a space and, basically, it depends on the position of the woman’s uterus, whether it’s forward or back.

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In most women, the anterior fornix is at the top, but you have to be aware that 30 percent of them, the uterus is flexed back, so the anterior fornix will be at the lower part of the vaginal canal. Those women are the ones that get orgasms from anal sex. THUNDERCAT: That’s good to know. How can you test for that? IN10SE: Just put your finger in there. If you feel her cervix at the top, that means her uterus is flexed forward. If you feel it at the bottom or at the back, that means it’s retrograde, which means… THUNDERCAT: She likes it in the butt. IN10SE: Yeah. Basically, one thing that is kind of interesting is that I’ve told girls, women that have never known before, I’ve said, “You know, you have a retrograde uterus? That means you can have orgasms through anal sex.” And they’re like “Oh, really? Let’s try it.” THUNDERCAT: (laughing) You dog, you! Coolest secrets revealed! IN10SE: Anyway, that’s one thing. When you put your fingers really deep inside, you feel that space. You basically massage it in and out, two fingers are most of the time the best, cause one, maybe is not enough. But then, what I do is I get my other hand and I put it on top of their pubic area, to where I’m pressing my hands together and I’m milking that whole bit of tissue there. As I’m doing that, I’ll have my mouth there, too, working the clitoris. THUNDERCAT: You’re basically milking her for all she’s worth. IN10SE: Yeah. What you do is start out slow. What you have to do is pace her rhythm, pace how turned on she is. It’s like riding a wave. You don’t want to start out fast and hard cause that’ll turn her off. You want to ride the wave slow and easy. You build up as she’s getting closer and closer to orgasm. You’ll get to the point where you are going faster and she’s moaning and screaming and gyrating and then all of a sudden it’s like – BOOM! And she bursts. I’ve done this with women who have never ever done that before. THUNDERCAT: That’s pretty powerful, man. It’s good stuff. IN10SE: Then at that point, they’re this quivering mass of flesh… THUNDERCAT: Curled in the fetal position…

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

IN10SE: Basically, yeah. I’ve had women stand up and visually be shaking. And then, they just go with it. Anything you do. And, women who’ve never experienced multiples, that’s when you can do that. THUNDERCAT: Cause they’re ultra sensitive. IN10SE: Yeah. THUNDERCAT: Makes a lot of sense, man. Now how did you pick this up? Was it books? IN10SE: Practice. THUNDERCAT: Trial and error, huh? IN10SE: The thing is about a lot of this end game stuff, for anyone to get any good insight into it, they have to get a lot of end game success. THUNDERCAT: Well, a lot of guys have a lot of trouble getting to the end game. You have to be really successful to get to that part. IN10SE: But once you get to that point and you start developing your own strategies, then you can start to perfect all these things, all these techniques. THUNDERCAT: It’s interesting, man, cause we’re covering a lot of things that have been mentioned about you, but not a lot of people know this stuff, even though you’re considered one of the top guys. And you’re in an interesting position now where basically outside the SS community and you have a place to shine. You’ve kind of been in RJ’s shadow. What makes you unique, in and of yourself? Apart from any of the influences you’ve had? IN10SE: There are a lot of different things. One of the things is how I talk and how I communicate with people. There’s a way that I talk. When I listen, I’m not listening just to what someone says, but I’m listening to why they say it, in the context. I’m aiming at what needs their having, and I’m listening for these needs. I’m addressing these needs, plus I’m getting them to feel. So, a lot of my strategy is geared towards getting them to feel and building that comfort. The whole mid-game is making them comfortable, having a rapport, and having them feel understood. One of the things that previously I had adhered to was the concept of building a self image for someone. There is a saying that Ralph Waldo Emerson has: “I’m not who I think I am, I’m not who you think I am, I am who I think you think I am.” That’s the whole concept of the

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self image. This is my own idea about this right now, I would even go so far as to say, and I’m kind of going out on a limb, cause this is kind of like my own concept of it, I’d say that people are anchors for parts of themselves. THUNDERCAT: People are anchors for parts of themselves? IN10SE: Basically, who you are now is somewhat different that who you are at work. It just makes sense that different parts of us come out. When you think of people as parts, and Swinggcat and I have talked about this extensively, it breaks down resistance. When someone gives you a rejection, you can say “I realize that you may not want to do this, but there’s a part of you that does. There’s a part of you that at one time did think about this, or you do think about this sometimes.” So you start to describe the part of the person, or to bring it out. So this whole concept of building a self image was just building up parts for people. The part that’s them when they’re with you, basically. I’ve kind of gotten away from that into more of stripping away the parts. I would rather strip away all parts of a person -- all parts all goals that a person has, and tell someone, “Look, I know you’re a certain way at work, or a certain way when you’re with your family, or your friends. Right now, with me, I don’t know who you are, or who you’re being, or who you want me to think that you are, but I want you to know that I want to be completely honest with you and I don’t want there to be any pretending to be different people. I’d rather be just two people getting together and enjoying each other completely for who we are.” So, that’s something that I’m moving more towards. Instead of manipulating people into playing roles or acting in certain ways, I’d rather have them be authentic and be who they really are inside. Because really, if you think about it, the whole thing with the shadow, that is their authentic self. And if I can allow that to come out, and give them permission to be who they really are, that’s gonna be great. THUNDERCAT: That’s really good stuff, man. Lets back up a bit. I’m interested in how you became famous in the SS community. How did you rise to the top along with a few other people like Riker and Swinggcat and Bishop into the upper echelons of that mindset? IN10SE: One of the things is we would all go out every weekend and we’d put into practice everything that we’d learned. And the thing about Swinggcat and I was we didn’t stop there. We were actually pushing the limits of what we were learning and we were trying things out. Just trying out anything that worked, based on what people saw when they would go out with us. Sometimes people would go out with us and they would be blown away by the things that we were doing. There was one time that Swinggcat and I went to this club. It was

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

actually one of these after-hours clubs, and we hooked up with some girls. Basically the girl that I hooked up with was sitting around on these couches talking about how she wanted some ecstasy to get high with. So I asked her “What if I could make you feel the same way, but without the need for the drug?” and she was into it. So I then proceeded to sit down on the couch with her and go through this whole visualization induction type thing and I did things with her visualizing and I had my hands on her. And at one point, she was in ecstasy, basically. She said that she thought she would never be able to feel the same way. THUNDERCAT: So let me get this straight. You actually elicited the feelings she had on ecstasy, made her re-experience them, and anchor them? IN10SE: I elicited those feelings, but not just that. I included myself in them. THUNDERCAT: So you anchored those feelings to you! IN10SE: And I went home with her. THUNDERCAT: Well, I should hope so. IN10SE: Yeah, and Swinggcat took his girl home. It was a good night. THUNDERCAT: That’s cool. Oh, the stories! I’m sure Swinggcat has a bunch of them that he doesn’t want to let out into public. That’s really something, man. That you could elicit the feelings that someone had on drugs and then anchor them to you and use that to pull them back. IN10SE: Well, what I did was I segued. From those feelings of ecstasy, I segued into her feeling turned on. So that the touching that I was doing on her chest, it quickly became suggestive. She took my lead. Basically, when I’m touching someone, or I’ve got my hands on someone at first, it’s all insinuation. Suggestion. Nothing is totally direct and blunt, cause then the walls come back. So, then what happens is you start feeling the feelings. That’s when you take the lead and they give me signals to go ahead. At that point, she grabbed my hand on her breast, and you have to recognize that’s a go signal. If we’re sitting there on a couch at a club and she puts my hand on her breast, well, that’s a good signal! THUNDERCAT: I’ll say. I hope most people would recognize that, even the inexperienced guys.

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

IN10SE: So what do you think are some common sticking points that most guys have? Or for you, what would be a question that you would have about sticking points or anything? THUNDERCAT: I’m actually interested on what you have to say about this. For a lot of guys, the sticking points come down to mid-game and end-game. They can open, they can get to a certain point, but somewhere in between, something falls apart. So I’m wondering what you have to say about end-game and mid-game. IN10SE: Basically the way that I see it, and a lot of this comes from this whole idea of beginning and mid-game, the whole format is actually Mystery’s stuff, I have to give him credit for that. And really it fits so nicely into this picture. I believe that when you meet a woman, she knows within 30 seconds whether you’re the type of guy she could sleep with. There’s a lot of things that go into it, but she knows right off the bat if she’s attracted to you. Of course she’s got to be in the right frame of mind to where she’s actually thinking of those sorts of things, so she can’t be distracted. She has to be in a social setting. A setting that is permissive to her screening for those possibilities. Or a date situation. But she knows right off the bat. But I don’t think that hope is gone at that point. If a woman isn’t attracted to a guy, there’s some guys that say: “It’s true, I don’t think attraction is a choice.” If a woman’s attracted to you, she’s attracted to you. But she can still NOT sleep with you, even if she is attracted. THUNDERCAT: What’s your definition of attraction? IN10SE: Attraction? I think when someone looks at you and feels a certain way inside, they’re like “Wow.” Actually, I just showed you my mechanism, my process. If you’re reading between the lines, what I just did, did you see where I put my hand on my chest? I opened my eyes and I said “Wow.” That’s my process for how I know when I’m attracted. One of the things, when I’m talking to a woman I’ll ask them: “Well, how do you know when you’re attracted to someone?” Then I’ll have her do just what you asked me, and I’ll watch what she does. Then I’ll mirror it back to her. In effect, eliciting that attraction. And then I may even do the elicitation format with attraction. “So, how do you know you’re attracted?” “What are the kind of things that you do?” “How do you feel?” “Where does it start?” So anyway, where was I? THUNDERCAT: Mid-game.

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IN10SE: Yeah, mid game. So I think women will know right off the bat if they’re attracted to you, and I think that looks have something to do with it. I think looks will get you in the door, but I think a woman will decide to sleep with you after you open your mouth, based on what you say. That’s all mid game. So there’s attraction. You can build attraction different ways. Some of the guys have this whole outer game thing, where there’s strategies to it -- being funny, being kind of playful, being somewhat teasing to her, you know? Demonstrating higher value to her, maybe even teasing her to the point where it makes her a little insecure, that whole thing is Mystery’s approach to it. So there’s a lot of things that amp up attraction. I think what amps up attraction also is tension. For instance, there’s a lot of things to build up tension. There’s physical tension, there’s emotional tension, there’s social tension, sometimes when you’ve demonstrated value through social proof or maybe something like what you do for a living, something about you that a woman -- the thing about women is they look at a guy and they say he’s attractive, but then you ask them: “What’s attractive about that guy?” and they can’t put their finger on it. A lot of it has to do with the challenge. Challenge creates tension. It all goes back to tension. When a guy doesn’t acknowledge a girl who’s flirting with him, he may be cool and not return her advances initially, to where she has to chase him, and that’s all creating tension. So tension is a big part of attraction, I think. That’s when challenging comes in. Swinggcat’s thing with qualifying every woman, where she has to live up to my standards, where I’m the prize. That’s challenging them. Sometimes I’ll say little things like “I don’t know, you may be too old fashioned for me.” THUNDERCAT: Like cocky-funny. IN10SE: Yeah, like little things that I’ll just say in passing. But the thing with comments like that are they take seed and they start to grow. There’s a part of her that says: “I’m not old fashioned! I’ll show you.” And that’s where you’re kind of creating a challenge for her to prove you wrong. You’re kind of challenging her self image, you know? So those are some things about attraction. Now once you’ve gotten past that attraction stage, You’ve been cold and cool and kind of aloof, you haven’t paid that much attention up to that point. The problem with most guys is they ruin the attraction right away by showing too much interest. Because the girl wants to have a good chase of course, they hate to admit it but it’s true.

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A lot of guys will show too much interest and be too nice. They have that whole “nice guy” thing going on. You really have to keep your interest level down. Even if you are really interested, you have to keep it down. Don’t show it. Make casual comments, comments that bust her a little bit. Then, you’ve set it up to where she has to prove to you. Now, you show her that she’s kind of growing on you a little bit and you’re opening up a bit to her. And as you’re talking, you’re starting to develop a rapport, you’re starting to feel comfortable with each other. Now you start talking about those deeper things we were talking about. You start talking about how she feels and you start listing feelings, to where she’s forced to feel. You talk about the things you have in common with her, the commonalities. It’s much less about you vs. her. It’s like both of us are now in our own space. It’s now us looking out on the world. You’ve kind of entered into your own space with her where you and her can open up and both share parts of yourself that you haven’t really talked about with too many other people, and she hasn’t either. This is where I use a lot of things like I have this “Ideal Relationship” theme. Where a woman will ask me, “Well, what would be your ideal relationship?” And I’ll say, “Basically there’s three things I want. Passion. Passion has this physical connection, there’s chemistry when you’re with this person. There’s this burning inside you when you look at this person.” As a side note, you’ll notice as I’m talking to you, notice what I’m doing, how I’m gesturing to you, when I’m saying “this person.” THUNDERCAT: You’re actually pointing at yourself. IN10SE: Yeah, I’m saying “This person.” And I’m giving commands to her. It’s this whole big induction thing. So, passion. “I need to have passion when I’m with this person. And then there’s also intimacy. What intimacy is to me is this sense of closeness where you feel like you want to know this person you’re with. You’re comfortable. You want to share things with this person. You’re really honest with this person, you feel like you can open up. You feel secure. And then, there’s also commitment. To me what commitment means is this is the person that can be there for you now and in the future. And you can see yourself with them in the future as well. The thing is, all relationships take on different degrees of all of these things. If you have just passion in a relationship, that’s like a one night stand. Cause there’s no intimacy and no commitment. If you have just intimacy, but no passion and no commitment, basically

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that would be like a friendship. That’s all you have is just a sense of closeness and comfort. And there’s problems with that.” I don’t want to say this, but just as a side note, a lot of guys just have comfort, and that’s their problem. Or if you just have commitment, your actually grandma and grandpa. Commitment is like and arranged marriage. There’s no physical passion, there’s no emotional connection, there’s just commitment. Now, you can have passion and intimacy, but no commitment. It’s like a romantic affair. You can have passion and commitment but no intimacy. That’s like people who get together and are committed to each other, and they love the sex, but they just don’t have that intimate connection. And you can have intimacy and commitment, but no physical passion. That’s like grandma and grandpa who are companions, but can’t remember the last time they had that fire inside. Ideally, you would have physical passion, you would have a balance of intimacy and commitment. You would have a balance of all three of those things. For me, that would be the ideal. So we’d just get into a discussion. THUNDERCAT: And that’s a pattern? IN10SE: It’s a theme. An ideal relationship theme. Themes are more interactive. THUNDERCAT: They’re a little less set, more open to interpretation. IN10SE: Yeah. So I may mention something about passion. I mentioned that thing about passion and commitment but no emotional connections, and several girls have said, “Yeah, that’s what I have. Are you supposed to have anything else?” And then, I start describing the ideal. THUNDERCAT: Now, do you do any anchoring? IN10SE: I have. THUNDERCAT: Do you use this still, or is this old school? IN10SE: It’s kind of old school. But you have to realize that people are kind of continually anchoring. Anytime you have an emotional state and you do something in the physical environment, you’re gonna be anchoring. People anchor without even realizing that they are. Gestures, facial expressions, etc. When I think about when I get turned on by something… wow. When I looked like this to the waitress, that was my own anchor. And if you wanted to use that to your advantage, you would start doing things like that when you found someone attractive.

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And that would help to bring about the same states of attraction. My ideas about anchoring, basically, I don’t know if anyone has thought about it the same way before. Even the founders, the people that were heavily involved in coming up with these concepts. My ideas about anchoring are that, if you think about it, we don’t experience reality as an external and an internal. We don’t separate that. We experience it as a whole. It’s inseparable in our minds. External reality to most people is identical to the internal. What you experience inside is basically everything that happens outside. So when you’re experiencing states, you’re putting these states into different places in your external environment. That’s all anchoring basically is. Whenever you’re influencing the external environment, realize that you’re also influencing the person’s internal environment as well. It’s like you have a direct link, just by the virtue of having them see you. You have a direct link to their internal process. THUNDERCAT: So we’ve covered mid-game. What are some end-game tactics that you can recommend to other guys? Cause a lot of guys honestly don’t know a lot about that part. They haven’t gotten there yet. IN10SE: Well, we’ve gone through all of mid-game. We’ve built a sense of comfort. What you need to do is start cycling through the comfort and attraction to where you’re actually building attraction as well. Cause you don’t have to stay in comfort, you can cycle through attraction. And whatever attraction was there initially, there has to be a spark. If there isn’t a spark, there may never be a spark. The thing is that there can always be a spark! There’s something about every person that can make them shine and which can create a spark. You never know. And there needs to be a spark. What you do is, once you’re in that comfort phase, you start cycling through between attraction and comfort, attraction and comfort, attraction and comfort -- amping it up and cycling through, building up the momentum. That momentum is what propels you into the end-game. When it’s done properly, like Mystery says, she’ll seduce YOU. The thing is, you can cycle through those. There’s always a point, maybe the first night, maybe the second night, there’s always a point in time where things could go one way, or things could go the other way. And too

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

many guys, because of their patterns, because of the way they’ve always done it before, follow it through the way they’ve always done it before. Thing is, when you get to that point, recognize that you’re at that point and the tension is there. And that you can use that tension to propel you to the end point. A good way to do that is just recognize the signals. I guess it all has to do with what you focus on. Recognize the signals she’s giving to you. If she’s giving you the signals, you have to recognize them and act on them. The thing is, whenever I’ve gotten any resistance in end-game, I cycle back through comfort. I start cycling back through attraction and comfort, till it builds up enough momentum to get back to end-game. THUNDERCAT: So you’ll actually backtrack and move forward again. IN10SE: Exactly. All in the same way. THUNDERCAT: That’s also a way of fractionation, right? IN10SE: Kind of. I guess it is. Or breaking up the tension. You could say that. THUNDERCAT: Creating a tension loop, so to speak. IN10SE: Yeah. Exactly. And if you notice, that Ideal Relationship pattern, if you notice how I mention physical passion and intimacy, where you feel a sense of comfort and connection, then commitment. If you think about it, that whole stage, that process, is kind of similar to when you find attraction, physical passion and then you go into comfort, it follows a stepwise order. The same pattern. It’s just doing it in one theme. THUNDERCAT: Now, what are your thoughts on being a celebrity in the community? Do you get contacted by guys a lot? IN10SE: Well, I have had guys that contact me, continually, and guys that want me to give them workshops, and want to do one-on-one type of sessions. I haven’t really followed up on that. For one thing I haven’t had the time. You know, I help guys. If they wanna hang out, that’s fine. But at this point, I haven’t needed anything that I would turn into a job. I don’t know. At this point, I just wanna help guys. It’s fun. It’s kind of like talking about things in the locker room. THUNDERCAT: Yeah. It’s a connection that all guys share. Unless they live in West Hollywood.

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Now, I know this is a touchy subject, but I want to talk about how you got kicked and banned from SS. Now, what lead up to that? What caused you to get banned from the SS community? IN10SE: Basically I think it was this one post, this end-game post, you know the one I’m talking about? THUNDERCAT: The one that came out on Cliff’s List? IN10SE: Yeah. Basically I didn’t give enough credit to people who had been influences to me. If someone had just read it, it may have come across that I was the one who came up with all of these ideas. But I went ahead and clarified that. THUNDERCAT: You actually sent out a post actually clarifying that. IN10SE: Yeah. The thing is, no one comes up with ideas in a vacuum. People do what they learn from other people. People do what comes from their own experience and what comes from bouncing ideas off of other people. From bouncing ideas off of what they already know has worked in the past. You build things that way. In that way, knowledge grows and experience grows. THUNDERCAT: Exactly. If you stifle that sort of thing, you hinder progress. But at the same time, there are a lot of people who post on Cliff’s List who do get stuff from other people. Especially guys in the community who actually interact with each other. Obviously, David DeAngelo got a lot of his stuff from Rick H. Swinggcat got his stuff from various sources. Mystery, he kind of developed his own thing, but Tyler, he gets a lot from everybody as well. This really wasn’t an issue until your post came out. What made it so different that it got you kicked out of the very community you were a star in? IN10SE: I think… I don’t know if I should say this, but I think we both know the answer to this question. Basically, I think part of it has to do with my affiliations with people outside the SS community. Part of it has to do with that. And part of it has to do with the fact that I don’t consider myself to be a student of just seduction. I’m a student of persuasion. A student of social interaction, and negotiation, and psychology. Anything that works. I don’t limit myself to any one certain area. I think when people start limiting themselves is when they stop growing. It can limit their growth. As far as their knowledge about it. If you think about it, one of the ideas that I’ve been playing around with is the idea that we all know what we need to do to be successful with women. All guys.

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I think that what happens is that as people grow up, just think about when you were a little kid, and you had these girls around you that you were teasing, you didn’t care. They didn’t faze you. Then all of a sudden, boom, they started turning you on, you started acting differently. That’s when a lot of guys get these complexes about getting rejected. All of these different layers of things start building up to where that true self that really knows what to do kind of gets buried. For a lot of guys, I think it’s really about finding that part of themselves. It’s about stripping away all of their past experience with women. Just going back to basics. Going back to how they acted back before they were rejected and back before they formed all these complexes. It’s innate. I think human beings have this natural instinct. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be here. THUNDERCAT: I know that when I got kicked and banned from SS, I had a lot of different emotions. I was kind of disappointed cause I’d been a part of it since ‘98, it was a big part of my life. How did it affect you personally when you got kicked out? What were you going through? IN10SE: At this point, I still consider RJ to be a good teacher. I have to give him a certain respect for that. As far as emotional reaction, anyone would feel kind of disappointed that got kicked or whatever. But the way that I look at it also, on the other hand, is that although I do feel disappointed, whenever one door closes, another door opens. Any time that a wall comes up, it’s really not a wall, it’s more like an opportunity to grow. Change is really what motivates us, I think, to grow and explore new things. THUNDERCAT: I have to say that the news of you getting kicked and banned from SS was kind of different from me. I mean, I’m a nobody, but you’re one of RJ’s top students. You know RJ personally, in fact. You two probably consider each other friends. Don’t you think it weird just in the way you got kicked out, wouldn’t you think he’d have just called you up and said “Look I’d like it if you gave me credit for this,” instead of just kicking you out of his teachings? I’m just wondering if your relationship with RJ, did it disintegrate before this, or were you still on good terms when this happened? IN10SE: RJ and I have the type of relationship that is based on respect. I respect him for what he’s done and I respect him as a teacher. I’m able to separate what he does from who he is. I believe in him as a person. And strangely enough, I do still consider him my friend. THUNDERCAT: Have you talked to him since you got kicked out? IN10SE: I haven’t talked to him on the phone or anything, but we’ve emailed each other.

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THUNDERCAT: Patching things up? IN10SE: Yeah. I think things got escalated and got kind of heated for a while. I don’t know. THUNDERCAT: How so? IN10SE: I guess it was a combination of a lot of other things going on. You have to realize that RJ, it’s his livelihood. A lot of people that take stabs, a lot of people will come up with something that’s in competition, and he kind of takes it very personally because that’s his livelihood. It’s the way he earns his living and it’s what he’s done his whole career. For me, all of this is for me, seduction and persuasion is a skill set. It’s not an identity. It’s not who I am, it’s what I do. It’s a skill set. I think that’s one of the keys a lot of these guys need to get to balance parts of their lives. They need to spend a good time with seduction, but they also need to spend a good time developing their own lives. With who they are and what their character is and what person they are inside, because women have a sixth sense about that kind of thing. They can sense right off the bat if someone has something to offer or if they’re just a sponge. They can always tell. I remember back in the day when Swinggcat and I were hanging out, we could always tell what we called vampires. Energy vampires. You could always tell when there was an energy vampire around. THUNDERCAT: This is an interesting concept. Explain more about the energy vampires. IN10SE: What it really is, the term “energy vampire,” its describing things in such a way to where you can visualize what a person does. It’s not literally that a person sucks energy as if energy were a tangible thing that you could feel, although I guess some people can. Any time you feel a vibe, that’s energy. That gets into all this new age stuff, but…what an energy vampire is, is someone who’s always emotionally draining the people around them. I was watching this Britney Spears special. She was on stage performing. And they would show the audience, and then they would show her. Basically, I was watching this transfer of energy with the audience channeling it directly into her as they watched her perform, and she was taking that energy the audience was giving her. This is all just a metaphor to help you visualize this, so you can consciously capture the gist of what I’m talking about.

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Basically, she was taking this energy that the audience was giving her, and amping up the energy in herself, and giving it back through her performance. And then the audience was taking the energy that she was giving off and then channeling it back to her. Any good performer can sense the flow of that energy can pull it from the audience can give it back can pull it again and can amp it up. A really good performer must also have to know how to build it up. How to build up the tension, and then let it go, and then build it up again. I think that’s why really good songs that you hear have a break section. Because they build up the song, they amp it up and then there’s a break. Then they can start building it up again. It’s the same way with energy. Basically, this concept of energy comes from those kinds of observations. Whenever you’re interacting with another person, there’s always a transfer of energy. Someone is either giving it, or taking it, or receiving it. And we can all get kind of a guttural sense of the people around us that are kind of sucking it in and sponging off of us. So, in your interactions with people, you always have to be the kind of person that brings something to the table. That gives something to them. You’re giving them a part of yourself. You’re giving them your attention you’re giving them your understanding, and your willingness to be curious about what they’re offering you. Being able to see past any façade they might have or any roles that they’re pretending and being able to accept them just for them. And in this way, as you’re asking them questions, you’re giving them your attention. In that way, you’re giving your energy to the other person. Does that make sense? THUNDERCAT: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Obviously you’re a well read guy. I’m wondering if there are any books out there that you would recommend other guys check out. IN10SE: There’s a lot of good books out there. But it depends on what you’re interested in. A good book that’s out now is “The Matrix Model.” And that’s by L. Micheal Hall. It talks about basically it’s all about this philosophical concept. There’s that movie, The Matrix, and it’s about we all operate within our own matrix. The thing is that you’re the creator of this matrix. Continually. All the time. Within this matrix, there’s different levels of meaning you’re making. This gets into a lot of theory. The matrix of self, the matrix of power, the matrix of time, the matrix of meaning. All of those things are, I guess you could say, they’re like filters that we experience reality through. It’s kind of interesting to be able to look at someone and to figure out what kind of matrix are they operating from. And to realize and to point out to someone that yes, indeed, we

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

are all operating from this reality that we just create ourselves. We’re continually making meaning. The interesting thing is that if you strip away that reality, what are we left with? Who are we down deep inside apart from our environment? It’s like we really can’t comprehend who we would be because who we are internally is always connected to the things that surround us. THUNDERCAT: What other books would you recommend? IN10SE: There’s some classics. There’s “The Psychology of Persuasion.” Anything by Robert Dilts is good. Bandler’s “Persuasion Engineering.” There’s a book, “Reading People” by Jo-Ellan Dimitrius, which is good for just being able to look at someone and to be able to get a vibe about who they are. Any books on negotiation are good. There’s a book called “Start with No – America’s number one negotiating coach explains why win-win is an ineffective and often disastrous strategy and how you can beat it,” and that’s really, really good because the premise is that you’re starting with NO right off the bat. You’re saying “Prove to me why I should want whatever you have to offer.” THUNDERCAT: Now, do you think that is a powerful frame to take with women? IN10SE: Exactly. You’re starting with no. Now, since I’ve said “no,’ it’s up to them to try and convince me. THUNDERCAT: So, what’s in the future for IN10SE? What are you working on, what are you looking forward to doing? What direction are you moving in? IN10SE: Actually some of the things that I’m looking at are further developing these kind of ideas based on negotiation, based on charisma. I’m always looking to meet people who have charisma and who have that kind of magnetism. There are certain people that you meet that seem to draw other people around them. Just you know, I’ve met a few people like that, and just modeling the things they do. So, those kind of things. There’s other things apart from seduction that I’m getting into. As far as human attraction skills and social mastery, that kind of thing. THUNDERCAT: That’s great stuff, man. Well thanks for the interview. Really, really good stuff.

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An Interview With IN10SE: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love NLP – www.seductionlair.com

Since this interview was conducted, IN10SE has gone on to release his own book on the topic of seduction, dealing mostly with mid and end-game. This book is called “The Game,” and can be found at IN10SE’s homepage at www.social-mastery.com

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