3 Ed Space Hulk vs Old Versions

3 Ed Space Hulk vs Old versions Is there any difference between the new 3rd ed. Space Hulk rules and the older versions? The biggest changes are: assault cannon, librarian and close combat weapons in the basic set marines get sustained fire in overwatch as well as normal shooting librarians get new powers paid for in psi points new guard action broodlord Stealer free turn now included in the paid action, cutting down on overatch shots There is no overkill in 3rd edition, so even if you do roll those 3 hits, you still only actually kill one model, just that one model three times over. Overkill was in second ed. The timer is fixed at 3 minutes in 3rd edition, and if you lose both sergeants you lose the ability to reselect your command points. In first edition you lose 30 seconds off your clock for each dead sergeant. I've been subtracting 30 seconds from the timer for every sergeant killed in 3rd edition. May not be in the rules, but damned if it doesn't crank the pressure up! Fun times. The removal of the sand timer from the 2nd edition, as I remember, was done less to "dumb down" the game, and more as a cost cutting decision; as a player of 1st ed it was one of the primary things I missed, but I understood the decision. I'm not unhappy that they brought it back for 3rd. I preferred the flamer rules for 2nd, on the basis that it allowed the SM player to be much more tactical in it's use, but not enough to cry like a baby now that they've gone back to 1st ed rules. The one change that 3rd introduced, one which I think is more trouble than it's probably worth, is that Command Points are now hidden. In 1st and 2nd the GS player knew exactly how many CP the SM player had to spend from the very beginning of the SM's turn. When I play 3rd edition rules, I commonly get my opponents blessing so I don't need to hide mine when playing SM. I deal with it if he prefers to go by the RAW. The true innovation that 3rd brings is the re-imagining of how Psykers work. 1st edition was great up until Psykers were introduced; the game instantly seemed to became about how best to deliver the game winning Librarian to the right place, and all other tactics went out the window. In contrast, 3rd seems to have done a nice balancing job; the Psyker is still very strong but, other than Mission VIII, he can't win alone. 1st edition - was great until the release of Psyker cards 2nd edition - to much missing (different weapons,cp's in stealer's phase, no librarians, Tactical armored Marines, hybrids etc.. 3rd edition - the way 1st used to be with a few good/bad changes.... Like overwatch sustained fire Auto jam dissipering for free cp's in stealer's phase Tactical armored Marines, hybrids Quote The one change that 3rd introduced, one which I think is more trouble than it's probably worth, is that Command Points are now hidden. In 1st and 2nd the GS player knew exactly how many CP the SM player had to spend from the very beginning of the SM's turn. No 1st edition you were able to keep CP's a secret also, which in my opinion has a very tactical application for the marines. They took this away in 2nd and the ability to use cp's in the stealer’s phase

I think the 1st ed version is more satisfying and very simple in concept (can you draw a line to the centre of the square? Then you have LOS to what's in it) but also difficult to show - I seem to remember WD FAQs about it. They seem to have avoided this by cutting it out completely. Unless you are in the room, you can't see anything apart from straight ahead. Hmmm... I'm leaning towards dropping much of the 3rd ed changes like these, but keeping the lovely components of course.

I definitely agree the simple psychic rules are a huge improvement over 1st edition. So far my only 3rd edition gripes have been easy to fix with house rules. A) "Jammed doors", useless and the rules take just as much space as the far better bulkheads from 1st ed. B) Librarian is too powerful. I make him use AP as well as PP when using his powers. Depending on the opponent I have sometimes used a hybrid flamer rule where it simply covers a 3x3 block around the target instead of the target tile. I think this is a reasonable blend between the artificial tile edges of 1st and 3rd edition rules and the fiddly 2nd ed. I usually don't play with the timer as long as both people know the game, so I don't notice the Sergeant death change. Just agree that the Marine player will move as quickly as possible. If they seem to be dawdling the Genestealer complains and brings out the timer for the rest of the game. Although I may start again since the guy at BGG released the nice iPhone timer app. The one change in second ed that they kept for third that I agree with most is capping the sustained fire limit to just +1. Otherwise that lone sod of a genestealer never got through. Sustained fire bonus on overwatch is a new thing for third ed which I thought was a little too powerful until my game last night where every single turn using overwatch jammed on one of the first few shots - often the first! Maybe I should take her to Vegas as she's so good at rolling doubles. My poor mother (my opponent) barely killed anyone on overwatch the whole game, but has an uncanny ability to roll 6's... Originally Posted by Teufelskerl View Post The removal of the sand timer from the 2nd edition, as I remember, was done less to "dumb down" the game, and more as a cost cutting decision; as a player of 1st ed it was one of the primary things I missed, but I understood the decision. I'm not unhappy that they brought it back for 3rd.  No, in 1st ed you provided your own timer (assumed to be a digital watch). Hence the time was varied for the presence of sergeants, captains, and psykers. Originally Posted by Teufelskerl View Post I preferred the flamer rules for 2nd, on the basis that it allowed the SM player to be much more tactical in it's use, but not enough to cry like a baby now that they've gone back to 1st ed rules.  Ugh. The flamer still ran out as fast if you wanted to block off movement, and you needed most of the tank left to complete "flame the room" missions. I think the only improvement from 1st to 2nd was that the marine miniatures were much better. Every other change was a step back IMO. Originally Posted by Teufelskerl View Post The one change that 3rd introduced, one which I think is more trouble than it's probably worth, is that Command Points are now hidden. In 1st and 2nd the GS player knew exactly how many CP the SM player had to spend from the very beginning of the SM's turn.  CPs were hidden in 1st ed in the same way as 3rd. The marine revealed his CPs in the endphase; if he'd overspent, the genestealers won by default. No point hiding them in 2nd as the marine could only use them in his own turn, so they were effectively extra APs rather than a tactical reserve. Originally Posted by Teufelskerl View Post When I play 3rd edition rules, I commonly get my opponents blessing so I don't need to hide mine when playing SM. I deal with it if he prefers to go by the RAW.

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Nothing in the 3rd ed rules to stop the marine player shouting out how many CPs he has drawn if he wants. Nothing to stop him telling lies about it either...

Originally Posted by Teufelskerl View Post The true innovation that 3rd brings is the re-imagining of how Psykers work. 1st edition was great up until Psykers were introduced; the game instantly seemed to became about how best to deliver the game winning Librarian to the right place, and all other tactics went out the window. In contrast, 3rd seems to have done a nice balancing job; the Psyker is still very strong but, other than Mission VIII, he can't win alone.  1st ed psychic cards definately made for a completely different game, but you could always play without them. It's true that non-psykers definately played second fiddle to the librarians and psykers if you were using them.  The broodlord is also a nice innovation, I thought. The main leap from 1st to 3rd is the game's aesthetics, which I think is very important.

Those Assault Cannons are crazy! Im amazed a weapon chosen to be used by the Astartes can overheat and destroy anyone anywhere near it! As an ex soldier Id go nowhere near the bloody thing!! That's quite common in 40k too - look at plasma weapons - If you've only got 1000 troops (ish), you're not going to give them weapons that explode in their face 1/6th of the time. The fluff explanations for Assault cannons, however, is a bit different in Space Hulk. The idea is that these are very volitile weapons at the best of times, but that under normal circumstances, the terminators have access to techmarines and fresh barrels (which wear out quickly due to the intense rate of fire). In fact barrels are apparently replaced with whenever it is reloaded. In the depths of a hulk, there's no easy access to techmarines, or new barrels, and so the game represents a weapon that is becoming dangerously worn out and in need of maintenance. Not saying I think this is a good plan, but it's wht the game has.

People are forgetting 2nd ed here, it is still an older version. 2nd ed space hulk is dumbed down and there are a few differences - mainly the flamer, and passing on action points but is overall an easier ghame for kids. 1st ed got a little too complex with all the expansions, so 3rd ed is the best all round. Failing you getting a copy of third ed, get 1st or 2nd and then read all the rules forum here and you will easily learn all the changes - I managed to learn them all and play before I got my 3rd ed copy as many stores etc were posting rules and alterations before the day of release. As an ex-soldier too, I agree about the assault cannon thing - it has a paltry rate of fire for a gatling gun as it is - it should use the overkill bonus from 2nd ed in my opinion. The fluff is fine, but with it's rate of fire and very small ammo load, it should never overheat. With reload it can only kill a maximum of 20 stealers in a game - hardly amazing, however it works in the game, so use the rules as they are for gameplay, but imagine some stealer has shredded the ammo feed or something and that is whatr makes it dangerous. It really depends how much you visualise the game as real events as you are playing, as to how you come up with excuses for rules. Personally, I see the board, but am seeing it al in 3D through the eyes of my marines, and every loss hurts deep inside...